ORIS
Započnimo s godinama kada ste se formirali. Što je bio temeljno za formiranje vas kao i onog MVRDV-a? Zanima me način na koji su, na primjer, obrazovanje i rad u OMA-i utjecali na vašu vlastitu praksu i način rada u MVRDV-u.

WINY MAAS
To je bilo jako davno. Mislim da je na moje formiranje najveći utjecaj imao rad u UNESCO-u. Kada sam imao nekih 26 ili 27 godina, putovanja u Afriku i Južnu Ameriku snažno su utjecala na formiranje mojih prioriteta. To mi se jako sviđalo. Morao sam plaćati svoj studij, jer mi je to bio drugi fakultet. Moji ga roditelji nisu željeli platiti, stoga sam to morao učiniti sam i raditi uz studij. Prvo sam radio za gradsku upravu Amsterdama kao projektant parkova, kasnije u New Delhiju, a zatim sam u Nikaragvi nakon potresa gradio parkove na raspuklinama od potresa. Nakon toga su mi DHV i UNESCO ponudili da radim na različitim projektima u Keniji, Sudanu i Jemenu.

ORIS
Prvi put kada smo se susreli projektirali ste dvije mašine. Jedna je bila odaziv na zadatak u INDESEM-u. Mislim da je to bilo 1986. ili 1987. godine. Zatim ste napravili mašinu za Bijenale u Veneciji. Što vas je inspiriralo da ih napravite?

WINY MAAS
Obje izražavaju želju prema razmišljanju o "mehanikama"
unutar urbanizma i arhitekture, prema naglasku
na proces i prema gledanju na arhitekturu kao na rezultat tih mehanika. Razmišljao sam o arhitekturi u okvirima "promjene" koja vodi do urbanih ili arhitektonskih konfiguracija, pa stoga i do proizvoda. O tome se radilo kod tih "mašinerija", o razumijevanju određenih logika mehanika, određenih koherentnosti i nekoherentnosti. Možete vidjeti da se to javljalo i kasnije u mom radu.

ORIS
Prva velika narudžba MVRDV-a bila je zgrada VPRO-a. Kad sam bio na otvorenju VPRO-a s Hermanom Hertzbergerom,
on je izuzetno pozitivno ocijenio doprinos te zgrade. Hermanovo uvažavanje je, po mojoj procjeni, temeljeno na tome da je on u VPRO-u vidio mješavinu svojih uvjerenja i možda Koolhaasov ili OMA-in diskurs, u kojem se neka vrsta Montessori škole susreće s načinom djelovanja OMA-e. Vjerujem da je Hertzberger u VPRO-u prepoznao ideje Marie Montessori u konceptima kao što je slobodni prostor,
preparirani okoliš, "tepih" organizacija zadataka, fleksibilna organizacija grupa, podjela na grupe za različite zadatke, protuhijerarhijski prostori, presavijeni (fold) prostori...

WINY MAAS
Nije li on na licu mjesta nazvao Alda Van Eycka i rekao mu da bi trebao odmah doći i vidjeti je? Ali, Herman nikada ne objašnjava svoju oduševljenost na izravan, razumljiv način. Čak je i u javnoj raspravi kasnije, na amsterdamskoj akademiji, to nekako bilo komplicirano. Priznao sam i priznajem otvoreno da smo s osobljem VPRO-a otišli u zgradu Centraal Beheers kao u primjer toga kako bi VPRO mogao funkcionirati. Centraal Beheer smo predstavili kao suprotnost klasičnim uredskim prostorima i pitali smo ljude u VPRO što bi više voljeli. Njima se to više svidjelo od dugačkog uredskog "bara" s pregradama.
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ORIS
Let’s start with your formative years. What was fundamental for your formation, as well as that of MVRDV? I’m interested it the way in which, for instance, your education and work in OMA influenced your own practice and the performance of MVRDV.

WINY MAAS
It was a long time ago. I think that the work for UNESCO had a major influence. When I was 26 or 27, going out to Africa and South America had a very strong impact on my agenda forming, I loved it. I had to pay for my own studies because it was my second study. My parents didn’t want to pay for it, so I had to do it myself and work along with my studies. Initially for the Municipality of Amsterdam, as a designer of parks, later in New Delhi and then in Nicaragua after the earthquake, building parks on the earthquake cracks. Then I was asked by DHV and UNESCO to work on different projects in Kenya, Sudan and Yemen.

ORIS
The first time I met you, you designed two machines. One was a response to the assignment at the INDESEM. That was 1986 or 1987, I think. Then you did the machine for the Venice Biennale. What was the inspiration for these machines?

WINY MAAS
Both machines indicate the desire to think about the "mechanics" within urbanism and architecture, to emphasise the process and to consider architecture as a result of those mechanics. I was thinking about architecture in terms of "change" that lead to urban or architectural configurations and thus products. That was what the "machinery" was about, to understand certain logics of mechanics, certain coherences and non-coherences. You can see that reappearing later in the work.

ORIS
MVRDV’s first major commission was the VPRO Villa. When I was at the opening of VPRO with Herman Hertzberger, he was incredibly positive about the result of the building. My reading of Herman’s appreciation was that Herman would see in VPRO a mixture of his beliefs and perhaps Koolhaas’s or OMA’s discourse, where a sort of Montessori meets a kind of OMA operation. I believe that Hertzberger in VPRO read Montessori’s ideas on concepts like free space, prepared environment, ‘carpet’ organization of tasks, flexible organization of the company, group division of different tasks, anti-hierarchical spaces, folded spaces…

WINY MAAS
Didn’t he call Aldo Van Eyck from the building, that he should come immediately to see it? Herman has never explained his enthusiasm in a direct, comprehensive way though. Even in a public conversation at the Acadamy of Amsterdam, afterwards, that was somehow complicated. I admitted and admit openly that we went with VPRO’s staff to the Centraal Beheer building as an example of how VPRO could function, Centraal Beheer was presented as an opposition to classic office spaces and we asked VPRO what they preferred. They appreciated it above a classical enclosed longitudinal office "bar".
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