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ORIS
Začnimo naš pogovori z leti, ko ste se oblikovali. Kaj je bilo
bistveno za vaš osebni razvoj in za razvoj MVRDV ja? Zanima me,
kako sta na primer izobraževanje in delo v OMI vplivala na vašo
prakso in način dela MVRDV-ja.
WINY MAAS
To je bilo že zelo dolgo nazaj. Mislim, da je name najbolj vplivalo
delo pri Unescu. Ko sem imel približno 26, 27 let, so potovanja
v Afriko in Južno Ameriko zelo vplivala na oblikovanje mojih prioritet,
zelo rad sem potoval. Svoj študij pa sem moral plačati sam, saj
je šlo za mojo drugo fakulteto. Moji starši ga niso želeli plačati,
zato sem moral to storiti sam, ob študiju sem moral
tudi delati. Najprej sem delal za amsterdamsko mestno upravo kot
projektant parkov, potem v New Delhiju, pozneje pa sem po potresu
v Nikaragvi gradil parke na razpokah, ki jih je povzročil potres.
Po tem sta mi DHV in Unesco ponudila, da bi delal pri različnih
projektih v Keniji, Sudanu in Jemnu.
ORIS
Ko smo se srečali prvič, ste projektirali dve napravi. Ena je
bila odziv na nalogo v INDESEMU, mislim, da je bilo to leta 1986
ali 1987. Potem ste izdelali stroj za Beneški bienale. Kaj vas
je navdihnilo za njuno izdelavo?
WINY MAAS
Obe izražata željo po premišljevanju o "mehanikah" znotraj
urbanizma in arhitekture, usmerjeni sta v proces in v pojmovanja
arhitekture kot rezultata teh mehanik. O arhitekturi sem premišljeval
v okvirih "spremembe", ki vodi do urbanih ali arhitekturnih
konfiguracij, torej tudi do izdelka. Za to je šlo pri teh dveh
"mašinerijah", za razumevanje določenih logik mehanike,
določenih soodvisnosti in nesoodvisnosti. Opazite lahko, da se
je zadeva ponovila tudi pri mojem poznejšem delu.
ORIS
Prvo veliko naročilo za MVRDV je bila stavba VPRO. Ko sem bil
na otvoritvi stavbe s Hermanom Hertzbergerjem, je bil ta izjemno
pozitiven do rezultatov omenjene stavbe. Herman jo je sprejel,
ker je po moji oceni v stavbi VPRO videl mešanico svojih prepričanj
in morda Koolhaasov ali OMIN diskurz, v katerem se neka varianta
šole Montessori sreča z načinom delovanja OME. Verjamem, da je
Hertzberger v stavbi VPRO prepoznal ideje Marie Montessori v konceptih,
kot je svobodni prostor, preparirano okolje, "preproga"
organizacije nalog, fleksibilna organizacija skupin, delitev na
skupine za različne naloge, protihierarhični prostori, zaviti
(fold) prostori …
WINY MAAS
Ali ni Herman poklical Alda Van Eycka kar iz stavbe in mu rekel,
da si jo mora priti kar takoj ogledat? Toda Herman nikoli ne pojasnjuje
svoje navdušenosti neposredno, razumljivo. Celo pozneje v javni
razpravi na amsterdamski akademiji je bilo to nekako zapleteno.
Priznal sem in priznavam iskreno, da smo z osebjem stavbe VPRO
odšli v stavbo Centraal Beheer, da bi si ogledali primer, kako
bi stavba VPRO lahko delovala. Centraal Beheer smo predstavili
kot nasprotje klasičnim poslovnim prostorom in ljudi iz VPRO-ja
vprašali, kaj bi jim bilo bolj všeč. Njim je bilo to bolj všeč
kot podolgovat pisarniški "bar" s pregradami.
(...)
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ORIS
Let’s start with your formative years. What was fundamental for
your formation, as well as that of MVRDV? I’m interested it the
way in which, for instance, your education and work in OMA influenced
your own practice and the performance of MVRDV.
WINY MAAS
It was a long time ago. I think that the work for UNESCO had a
major influence. When I was 26 or 27, going out to Africa and
South America had a very strong impact on my agenda forming, I
loved it. I had to pay for my own studies because it was my second
study. My parents didn’t want to pay for it, so I had to do it
myself
and work along with my studies. Initially for the Municipality
of Amsterdam, as a designer of parks, later in New Delhi and then
in Nicaragua after the earthquake, building parks on the earthquake
cracks. Then I was asked by DHV and UNESCO to work on different
projects in Kenya, Sudan and Yemen.
ORIS
The first time I met you, you designed two machines. One was a
response to the assignment at the INDESEM. That was 1986 or 1987,
I think. Then you did the machine for the Venice Biennale. What
was the inspiration for these machines?
WINY MAAS
Both machines indicate the desire to think about the "mechanics"
within urbanism and architecture, to emphasise the process and
to consider architecture as a result of those mechanics. I was
thinking about architecture in terms of "change" that
lead to urban or architectural configurations and thus products.
That was what the "machinery" was about, to understand
certain logics of mechanics, certain coherences and non-coherences.
You can see that reappearing later in the work.
ORIS
MVRDV’s first major commission was the VPRO Villa. When I was
at the opening of VPRO with Herman Hertzberger, he was incredibly
positive about the result of the building. My reading of Herman’s
appreciation was that Herman would see in VPRO a mixture of his
beliefs and perhaps Koolhaas’s or OMA’s discourse, where a sort
of Montessori meets a kind of OMA operation. I believe that Hertzberger
in VPRO read Montessori’s ideas on concepts like free space, prepared
environment, "carpet" organization of tasks, flexible
organization of the company, group division of different tasks,
anti-hierarchical spaces, folded spaces…
WINY MAAS
Didn’t he call Aldo Van Eyck from the building, that he should
come immediately to see it? Herman has never explained his enthusiasm
in a direct, comprehensive way though. Even in a public conversation
at the Acadamy of Amsterdam, afterwards, that was somehow complicated.
I admitted and admit openly that we went with VPRO’s staff to
the Centraal Beheer building as an example of how VPRO could function,
Centraal Beheer was presented as an opposition to classic office
spaces and we asked VPRO what they preferred. They appreciated
it above a classical enclosed longitudinal office "bar".
(...)
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